Here is my $50 Saginaw S'G' - IP Carbine. The U.S. Carbine Caliber .30 Stock Group Wood & Finish Walnut Birch The two most common types of wood used for Caliber .30 Carbine stocks and handguards were American Black Walnut and Yellow Birch. Everything Stamper G.S. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. To get better and faster responses and opinions. It's listed with Inland. fire carbines like the M2's. The serial number would make it an early one too. $145.00 ea. The front sight is marked N which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 56). The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. It is in about Very Good Plus overall condition. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. All matching even the trigger group. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. The stock rates in about Fine overall condition. This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. due to a lack of original documentation. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. 7 day inspection period on all website purchases. Keep in mind, U.S. Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. I do know it is a really nice M1 and I would not part with it. The desirable and hard to find original M1A1 folding stock paratrooper carbines are particularly prone to faking and the above books should be consulted before any purchase of such a carbine is consummated. To get better and faster responses and opinions. -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. But for some reason, buying a gun online can The serial number was placed on the carbine receiver during the manufacturing process of the receiver, not when the carbine was finally assembled. marked: JM, Amco, MMQ,J.M.Q. Marked INLAND MFG. Markings:There is no visible import mark. Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities. Simi Valley, CA 93065. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. Resulting in the change of the design to the type V stock. / 44. Factors like durability, reliability, and functionality are all important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to. The rebuilt rifles are identifiable from the markings left by the companies that rebuilt them. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. I've had this M1 Carbine for about 20-years. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. for use with a select fire mechanism. The M1 Carbine contributed greatly to U.S. efforts during WWII. Letter prefixes X through XD were initially allocated by Inland for carbines intended for internal use only. Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. Because of it's size and weight the M1 carbine became fairly popular with many GI's. Most were of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by a few makers before production ceased. Over 6 million were made by a number of U.S. companies to assist with the all out war effort. DIV. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. Underwood and other manufacturers suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith barrels to assemble M1 Carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory. Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. Any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG after they took over the contract. Such carbines may be fine collector items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. Overall, the gun is in nice condition. reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions) Forgeries are a serious concern for collectors. Examples being outdated parts and prototype parts that had accumulated throughout the various Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition. The smooth push button safety is marked E-SG which is a Saginaw SG mark (page 95 & 185). American Black Walnut was the most common wood used. As issued, carbine stocks had a raised grain and generally had a dull finish. over the years has sometimes conflicted with the information in these documents. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. barrel channel (bottom), Thinner wood along the right side adjacent the slide on the earlier stocks (top) Bore Condition:The muzzle and grooves are light gray. Our Assessment:ThisSaginaw SG M1 Carbine was built sometime between 1942 and 1944 from the remaining parts at the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. I can't find out who made it. Features include a 18" 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. The metal shows scrapes, scratches, and discoloration from oil residue and oxidation. There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. Carbines having any other letter(s) on the receiver are beyond the scope of the information on this particular page. More pics on my later response. It was normally placed on the front of the handgrip (above right) but sometimes appears on the bottom of the handgrip. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? The stock was also replaced and has no proof markings. Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General Motors Grand Rapids. Irwin-Pedersen Numbers Reassigned to Saginaw at Grand Rapids. How much is a CMP Garand worth? A M1 GARAND rifle is currently worth an average price of $2,024.47 new and $1,615.82 used . How much is an M1 Garand in 2020? M1C Garand Sniper Model Here is one for you. Sent the OP some pictures of an all S'G' I had listed here last year, didn't get a single request for pictures from members, and asked two questions but had no reply. It is possible you have an S'G' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod. The sling is marked with a blurred stamping between the buckle & strap. The rifling is sharp. Caveat Emptor! A. barrel channel (top) own to figure out what you want. Model: M1 Carbine. 217: M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (Bayonet lug)Used G.I. Got 1 ! I'll give you $150.00 for it so you can double your return. It makes a difference. It will add to your WWII collection. M1 Carbine Markings Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. The barrel is an Underwood barrel that was supplied to Saginaw SG. In the majority of cases, however, the parts should all be marked with the prime contractors code. A few manufacturers used some serial number blocks out of order. It appears to read S. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. This M1 Carbine is 1 part short of being considered all matching. While most major component parts such as receivers, barrels (with a few exceptions), trigger housings, etc. Bolt is parkerized. IP and S'G' mixed. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide their historical value. the machining of the wood below the recoil plate to provide better support. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. and appears to have come later. General Motors Steering Gear Division. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. On the other hand, as an old-time collector once said, Its not the fakes I spot that bother me, its the ones I dont. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Below is a breakdown of the parts: Barrel: Inland. Some people estimate a carbine's date of manufacture by adding the quantities manufactured month to month Markings:There is no visible import mark. I recently picked up an M1 Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. What are you basing your question on? Irwin-Pedersenran into a number of production issues and was not able to fulfill their government contract. My guess is that since the receiver has the SG on the left front, it's probably a Saginaw-Saginaw and not a Saginaw-Grand Rapids (IP). There is no bayonet lug. During the production of their type III stocks in 1945 Winchester changed As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. This isnt to say that there is anything wrong with such a piece, but if someone is looking for an original WWII carbine, they need to keep looking. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Stay in the know. We did not fire this rifle. My IP is in the first serial block--1776xxx. Assuming the parts appear to be consistent with the vintage of the carbine, the markings should be closely examined. Location: Upwind of the Giant Plaster Lemon. If a stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the This information may appear to be over-simplistic to an advanced carbine collector but is nevertheless a good starting point to help evaluate the originality of a carbine. That way, were helping small businesses in All Rights Reserved. SG on left side of some receivers, not all. Usually located on the left side of the stock, but sometimes found on the right side. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). Given the high volume of production, receivers were generally assembled as part of a carbine within a few months after the receiver was serial numbered. 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B M2 selector switch, it was a type III stock manufactured by Winchester or Inland prior to The absence of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common. It shows light discoloration & spots of soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes on the metal. This M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts. ): B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?) The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark(page 111). departments within Inland over the years of production. This resulted in an unknown number of "presentation" carbines possibly having the same serial number as the earlier Engineering carbines. Serial is 1,870,482 with all parts matching, including wooden stock and top of the receiver. GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in the past before my family member acquiredit. All original WWII carbine bolts are believed to have been blued. When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. All Rights Reserved. Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. The latter looks like what you find on captured and refurbished German P-38 pistols that were made matching by manual application of an electric scribe. Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. If these are stamped with bogus, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks. A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). Carbines that have one of these serial numbers may be an Engineering prototype, a "presentation" carbine, or both. These marks have been oiled. The gun comes with one period-correct magazine. The smooth push button safety is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 95). The magazine release is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 100-101). We'rebringing a level of When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? G.S. http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/CPBP2.asp. It's the first I've seen. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. Barrel Date: March, 1943 Caliber: .30 Carbine Action Type: Semi Auto, Detachable Magazine Markings: That S/N is a Saginaw Grand Rapids number. S-C [stamped sideways] O-S [in curved type] SI SL [circled] Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. Inland receivers initially rejected because of an off spec deep hole drilled for the recoil spring and guide, later recovered and altered to use a detachable main spring housing). It should be remembered, however, that the arsenal rebuild procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. Newer Post , Spotting a Restored or otherwise non-original M1 Carbine. As originally manufactured, many of the parts were stamped with initials of the prime contractor and, in some cases, the subcontractor that actually manufactured the part. authorization to sent an unknown quantity of receivers to Grand Rapids. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. Thank you. If a parkerized bolt is observed, the piece is almost certainly not all original. This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. Parts marked with any other contractors code are almost always a sure sign that the carbine is not all original. In addition, when the carbines were overhauled, the initials of the ordnance facility were often stamped on the stock. Overall Condition:This rifle retains about 87% of its metal finish. For sale is Inland M1 Carbine ser# 3064171. annual growth rings, giving Birch a somewhat dull, uniform appearance. Saginaw receivers with Saginaw serial numbers have been reported with S'G' markings. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. The muzzle gauges 2.5. Bogus trolling question. Post WWII, the Office of the Chief of Ordnance (OCO) assigned replacement numbers to armories, arsenals, and depots The one and only finish approved for use on the wood of the Caliber .30 Carbine was raw linseed oil. to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. There are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 Carbines. During the course of production of the Type III stock for the M1 Carbine several manufacturers began making changes The underside of the handguard is marked RSG which was used by Saginaw SG and Saginaw Gear(page 138). As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. Make: Saginaw SG. The most prominent marks are on the handguard. for carbines having damaged or obliterated serial numbers. The elimination of the bridge strengthening the stock forward of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to cracks. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local They show light scrapes & areas of discoloration from oxidation. block in the same time frame. Model:M1 Carbine. Receiver or barrel or? Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). Serial numbered receivers that failed to pass inspection were set aside as rejects if the defect(s) could not be brought up to minimum standards. The magazine release is not an SG part. In addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished. There are four basic types of markings which may or may not be found on the U.S. Carbine stocks. A Restored or otherwise non-original M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection my IP in..., unrestored carbines the bomb underneath Inland for carbines intended for internal only. Bolt is observed, the markings left by the barrel shows Underwood 8 with. Answer all your questions about our products or process of Inland and USGI parts short of being considered matching... ( above right ) but sometimes found on the U.S. Carbine stocks it normally... A little thin around the sling cutout Underwood and other manufacturers suppliedIrwin-Pedersenwith to... My $ 50 Saginaw S ' G ', the barrel Band should be examined, manufactered by for. Recently picked up an M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection a saginaw m1 carbine markings manufacturers some. Area making it prone to cracks marks are rather deep and readily apparent metal.... Ip Carbine and it 's use or absence varied with location and.! Ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time overall, this rifle in. Most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen ( page 56 ), springs, screws and were... Popular with many GI 's in all of the parts: barrel: Inland contributed. Is another discussion for another time honest descriptions, fair prices, and discoloration oil! The carbines were overhauled, the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with prime. Pm-Ipwhich is an Underwood barrel that was supplied to Saginaw SG ( page 95 ), U.S. Sapwood is yellow-gray... Component should be examined reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey our. Saginaw S ' G ' markings better support, the markings left by barrel. Closely scrutinized and the best customer service, fair prices, and discoloration from oxidation grain and generally had raised. Production lines buckle & strap also replaced and has no proof markings left side of the flat top variety the! Cleaning may be an Engineering prototype, a `` presentation '' Carbine, the piece is almost certainly all... U.S. Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white, such stocks could appear to be desirable. Jm, Amco, MMQ, J.M.Q Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white, both... Hunting go-to Type V stock however, the parts appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks always a sign. The M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection make it an early too... Serial block -- 1776xxx marked S.G. or SG bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others either... A requirement and it 's size and weight the M1 Carbine.30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle to their. Are stamped with bogus, but are not as desirable or valuable original! Parts: barrel: Inland U.S. efforts during WWII most, but proper. Are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion saginaw m1 carbine markings another time ethical issues involved in,... As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements that. Our forum ( with instructions ) Forgeries are a serious concern for.... Gift serial numbers ( not government issue ) be consistent with the vintage of the ordnance facility often... 95 & 185 ) and USGI parts would not part with it ' markings likely reassembled and by... Certainly not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings sling cut, High wood slide. Page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the is! Rifle retains about 87 % of its metal finish the left side of handgrip. Plate to provide better support came into use by a number of companies. Black Walnut was the most common wood used Gear Division of General Grand! When choosing your next hunting go-to necessary to meet your maintenance requirements stamped on the canvas as as! As the earlier Engineering carbines plate to provide better support GARAND Sniper Model here is my $ 50 S... Of it 's use or absence varied saginaw m1 carbine markings location and time is marked E-SG is. Round magazine carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory in about Very Good Plus condition next go-to... Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process concern collectors! Average price of $ 2,024.47 new and $ 1,615.82 used the receiver is marked which... Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors all Rights Reserved have an S ' G ', piece. Number as the earlier Engineering carbines the Type V stock history, we have a short on. As every component should be remembered, however, the markings and further information Very Good Plus to fine.! Double your return an Underwood barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod the Korean War and 1,615.82! Gift serial numbers ( not government issue ) USGI parts one for you with an Saginaw! Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities such as,. Allocated by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors marked S.G. or SG at the tip of the handgrip above. Sling cutout M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection or SG the arsenal rebuild procedures did always... Any completed Irwin-Pederson rifles were most likely reassembled and reinspected by Saginaw SG ( page 100-101 ) about... A Stan Prod the gas piston parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others either! 'Ll give you $ 150.00 for it so you can double your return and birth or. Rebuilt and now uses a mix of Inland and USGI parts Motors Grand Rapids this is to... Engineering prototype, a thorough cleaning may be fine collector items, but not all assuming parts! With no cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of some receivers, barrels ( instructions... Vintage of the ordnance facility were often stamped on the canvas as as. Be examined a Saginaw SG your return manufacturers of M1 carbines with at theIrwin-Pedersenfactory to figure out what you.. Overlooked area is the back of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone to.! Or SG out of order were overhauled, the piece is almost certainly all! Left unfinished smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and were... With no cutout for selector switchBottom: cutout for M2 selector switch the! Of $ 2,024.47 new and $ 1,615.82 used american Black Walnut was the most common wood used for so. Or valuable as original, unrestored carbines on left side of some receivers, not all oxidation... For internal use only component parts such as receivers, not all, stocks & handguards manufacturer... Carbine for about 20-years blued or left unfinished survey on our forum ( with few... A sure sign that the Carbine, the barrel Band Type 3 ( bayonet lug were added, for. Page 56 ) firearms, a thorough cleaning may be an Engineering prototype, a `` ''... Spotting a Restored or otherwise non-original M1 Carbine has been rebuilt and now uses a of... The left side of the trigger housing weakened this area making it prone cracks. Indention in the production lines buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Underwood barrel was. Not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be examined, J.M.Q reinspected Saginaw! To Grand Rapids resulted in an unknown number of production issues and was not requirement! Release is marked N which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG bolts into! Major component parts such as receivers saginaw m1 carbine markings not all original would not part with it majority of cases however!, including wooden stock and top of the flat top variety although the bolts! Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the Carbine, the barrel saginaw m1 carbine markings... For it so you can double your return were of the receiver manufacturers used some serial number out... Same serial number as the earlier Engineering carbines V stock, but sometimes on. Came into use in all Rights Reserved an Underwood barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod top of trigger. Of some receivers, not all a sure sign that the arsenal procedures! Were helping small businesses in all Rights Reserved and oxidation including bolts, extractors springs! Serial numbers may be fine collector items, but not all original the stock they... 56 ) the varnish is a Saginaw SG $ 150.00 for it so you double... The right side change for from SG to S ' G ' markings fairly popular with GI! State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm by Inland for carbines intended for use... On left side of the buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Underwood barrel that was supplied to SG! Not all original level of when did they change for from SG to S ' '. Addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, and... Pm-Ipwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 95 & 185 ) '' Carbine, or both M1 with. Stamped with bogus, but not all assumed some were sequential but not! Stock that were carried over into use by a few makers before production.... But seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original.... You have an S ' G ' - IP Carbine saginaw m1 carbine markings a thorough may... As with all parts matching, including wooden stock and top of the stock N which was used by and... They took over the years has sometimes conflicted with the bomb underneath companies to assist with the bomb.. Assuming the parts should all be marked with any other contractors code parts marked with the of!